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 Changes to the Site

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Xerxes

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PostSubject: Changes to the Site   Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:35 pm

Hello,

First off let me just say that Crystal for all the effort she put into the layout, graphics, and the systems. Clearly took a lot of thought and intention and I personally am a fan of sites that are extremely interactive and very in depth. Deep story lines are irresistible are they not?

That being said, I think there are multiple tweaks that need to be made to this site. Alot of them can be considered "foundational" aspects of the site, but nevertheless I am going to step out and say that they need to be changed and even deleted in some cases. I will not do this falaciously though. I have alternatives that I am going to offer, and all of my criticism, though blunt at times, is purely constructive. I would not spend the time reading all the sites stuff and writing this if I did not care at all or thought little of this site. But I genuinely believe these changes need to be made for the sites long term survival, as well as for a much better role-playing experience yet to be had on such a site.



1.Specialites

Quite frankly... If I cannot convince this to be changed, I will give up. Because this is the most obvious one.

Specialties need to be condensed immensely. Keeping in mind you want classes that are generic and cover all types of "mana users". For example, you can have "Elemental control" as a style. Ninjutsu and Elemental Magic can use this. Ninjutsu uses nature releases, elemental magicians use magic to affect in a slightly different way. No need to have eight classes of fighting just under Magic. You can summarize and put elemental abilities under the same roof and people of different styles access elements differently etc.

Magicians call it illusions, shinobi call it genjutsu. Get the picture? Magicians call it "inscription" shinobi call it fuuinjutsu... I will go on, but you get the idea by now. They might be slightly different in some aspects, but you do not need different classes for them. Just have a class for elemental control, illusions, weaponry (all types in the same class), Medical, and seals. Magicians and shinobi use these styles differently but they both use them. They are just called different names and described differently.

If you make too many classes, which is the case, you force people to have very restricted fighting stlyes and limit their ability to fight other styles via creativity with techs and roleplay. That is not fun and non-sensical. There is no need for a magician to be able to have the class called "wizardry". They are wizards already... They should not have to have a class for that as it is simply elemental use of magic etc. Necromancy and alchemy etc. are adjectives. You call it that when they make a technique that does such and such. There is no need for a bracket. As if an experience magician cannot use ANY techniques from this sub-categories because he does not have class points in them. It is too complicated. Consolidate.

And if you feel smaller, rarer abilities like "alchemy" need a fighting stlye or whatever - make them stand out as extras or something. Like unique abilities (KKG I.E.) rather than specific styles. Or make them hard to access -something like that.

Also, all elements should not be able to automaticlaly be accessed by magic. And NO special elements that are two elements made into one should be easily accessible by the average magician; as is the same in the shinobi world; albeit, magicians have an advantage in this respect.


Just a recap.

All specialites need to be archived or deleted, and generic ones take their place. Elemental, Illusion, Sealing, Physical Combat, Medical, Weaponry.

As for the small types of fighting that exist within these larger styles - they are a matter of description and rpng. Leave some things up to the rper and great writing. Everything does not have to be a class that is labled out and you must have skills in this class to do anything resembling it. That is silly and not like how real fighters are.

Then make lengthy descriptions of each and how the different mana wielders tend to use them etc. But it needs to be that rather than literally seven specialites just for being a ROGUE... Including BEGGING.... I love depth and realness... but.... please.... Lets be a bit more efficient.


2.Stat System.

The stat caps should exist. However they should be dependant upon your race. Humans should only be able to lift so much weight because of obvious physical laws, while elves might be stronger etc. But not a general limit for everyone. Communism of stats always works against sites. The fear that someone might get "too high of stats" is illusory. Brothers and sisters... I am sure that this is an illusion we all fear for really no practical reason.
Firstly, for rp reasons people cannot be very strong at many things. One, most are not that good of rpers. Secondly, most will not put in the work. It should be hard to get to a high level at everything. But it should be possible. If you make things possible, you add a higher sense of motivation in people. And as we have seen in many animes, just because you are good at multiple things does not make you more powerful than someone who is only good at a few things. Battles must be fought.

Did I mention the vast majority of people do not get that diverse? And those that do are still very (very) stoppable.


Next point on stats.

Stats should be according to race. There should be a general limit, and then that limit should be removed or extended for some races. Not a boost. Boosts do not help at all. At all. Not to mention, the idea is that some races can take certain things farther. Give people the opportunity to do so by earning that stat. P.S. If you take away a limit for a stat, that does not mean everyone will be "over 9,000". Time and time again this is proven on sites. Just because people have access, does not mean they can and will rape it. They could not if they wanted to because of the work it requires. Not to mention, it does not give you an auto-win lel That is a novice fear. Just cause my race is of giants and we can get strength to 5,000 or higher does not mean we auto-kill everyone.

Now I know the main fear with this is speed. "What if speed gets tooooo high?" Again; there are various ways to defend against speed; and if you make it hard enough for people to increase in the stat, even races that have the limit removed, you will find few who are actually "scary fast". But every good character is "scary" at something. This should not scare you. No pun intended. Just because someone is faster than you does not mean they auto-kill you. ITs called strategy. If you cannot use it well enough to overcome your opponents strengths, and your weaknesses in comparison to those strengths - you deserve to die. That is how the game works.

If you take away limits for certain races, you add uniqueness and value to that race, and you add it controversy. Because we must all fear the immense mana amount (potential) of elves; but those giants and their strength... Those Annanuki and their reflexes etc. It also gives people motivation to be diverse in the races they choose or species they apply for. We should sit down and go through a few basic races and determine their limits; and new races people make for their chars can be judged on a case by case basis. You need power to be unbalanced in certain regards in certain ways so that the game is interesting and so people do not go into battle with the same freaking stuff. Equality is an illusion, in real life and in rpng. You might have stupid mana; but someone else has stupid speed. Deal with it. This is true war.

Lets not take that gorgeous aspect out of it I beg you...



Last point on stats...

You made them to little. The gains for stats in terms of how they relate to your abilities should be larger. Level 7 speed should not be 125 mph lel. That is slow. This is a world of super-humans, wizards, warlocks, shinobi, gods, demons, angels, etc. It should be higher than that. And like I said, the caps that are for most races are in place, so no need to fear. Remove the "buffs" for speed. Do not make this more complicated than it needs to be.
Please remove all "buffs". If people want to create or apply for special abilities -  so be it. But lets not make up random ones just yet. It adds more complication that is not necessary. Let them do that.

Consolidate the penalties for loss of mana. Make it one simple penalty as opposed to certain percentages taking certain percentages out of your stats. That is tooooo complicated. Make it simple. Once your mana reaches a certain level - 50 or below for example, you experience affects. Or maybe you want to make it a percentage. Fine. But make it ONE percentage, affecting one percentage of your static stats. And the "pass out range" should be a definite number for sure.

The Control stat should mainly be a determiner for the level of tech you can use. That should be its primary focus.

Health is pointless, please delete it or remake it. You cannot be "healthier". You can a) be able to last longer on the treadmill or b) be able to withstand a bullet point blank like its nothing. Health has one of those meanings. Either endurance in fights, or overall tankiness. And it likely should be the first since tankiness is a perk/ability. Humans can be as tough as they want; lava WILL melt their skin.
Orcs might be different. You get the point. Health is either pointless because it should be obvious how "healthy" (lol) you are; or it should be a matter of tankiness- which is a perk for certain races in certain contexts.

A general health stat should be canon, but certain races should be harder to harm in general. We know human durability. Touch your stove or swallow a knife. But we do not know what would happen to some other races in these contexts. Get me? Tankiness should have a cap for most races, with some having higher caps or none at all.

Strength -  same as speed. The power needs to be much, much greater. And please remove ALL buffs from all stats. Not necessary.

Reflexes -  Looks pretty good. Remove buffs of course. And make it so that you can react to x2 your reflexes at all times. If people get to scary levels of reflex, maybe this can increase via perk or whatever.

So, just generally speaking; take out drawbacks out of all stats, take out buffs from all. If we wish to add them back in for some reason or someway, lets discuss it. But for now - please take them out as they are most definitely only complications.

3. Plot

Delete it completely. I will offer to re-write it if desired. But that has to go.


4. Roll System.

I can only pray this is deleted. It serves no purpose and should not exist. It can only hurt the site. Let people come up with their own races and abilities etc. No need to have preset ones.


5. Universal Laws

We need to establish some universal forces like Nature energy and how they operate and can be used. This can be discussed later but needs to be made so people know of the basic powers they can potentially access. Something like a "Sage Mode" should be available to some if not all races. Most of these will have to be made by members, but some should be in place already.


6. Historical Artifacts

These should be made as well as be able to be added to like a continuing story line. People should also be able to submit historical events as canon history to help.
Getting people to make chars that are being players in historical events can help to start off the feel of the site in a good way and a controversial spin innately woven in. I would offer my own char to be used for this reason or whatever you see fit.



Well that is it for now. If something is unclear, please let me know. I am only offering this with the goal of making the site extremely easy to join and make any kind of character and interact with any kind. I think that we should leave characters the openess to create concepts (universal, historical etc.) that add depth to the story, rather than them all already being created - though some are definitely necessary and Crystal has done a great job of coming up with the ideas. I am willing to accept disagreement or rebuke, please just read what I have written thoroughly and consider it before making a decision.


Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: Changes to the Site   Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:58 pm

1. Specialties

I understand where you're coming from but what you need to understand first and foremost is that this is not a Naruto RPG. This is not going to mimic a Naruto RPG. This is not going to act as a substitute for a Naruto RPG. This is a fantasy RPG. With that said, there are more options but with that must come more restrictions. Such as a high number of specialties. The thing is, you should not simply by able to say 'Hey, I'm a master of weaponry, so I can wield any weapon and use any weapon in the world like an expert.' No, that's not how it works and it completely negates any purpose non-mana users have. If you want to be a non-mana user as it stands, you can invest in numerous combat skills to substitute your lack of mana-based skills. With your system, any mana user can simply focus on mana-based skills then drop some in 'Weaponry' and suddenly be able to hold their own against just about any non-mana user.

No. It also doesn't make sense for those who want to ONLY be skilled in a specific type of weapon. This is why we give out a relatively high number of skill points. Because there are so many skills to choose between. If someone wants to be a swordsman? So be it. Someone wants to wield a mace? A bow? Alright. They don't have to invest about a third of their skill points just so they can wield a bow or a mace or a sword. They can invest around 1/7 of their specialty points and only master one weapon, while investing the rest in skills that they actually want. Lowering the number of specialties can be extremely counter-productive to character creativity and originality. Why should half the site have the exact same specialty set-up? It's unappealing.

However, I do understand to a degree that perhaps the mana-based specialties should be more generic. And with that in mind, I will be re-writing the mana-based specialties to be a bit more inclusive and broaden them. Other than that, I don't see a lot more budging with regards to the specialties. As it stands, it allows for extreme diversity and character development. Something that Naruto RPGs really lack, in my opinion.

2.Stat System.

I'm not going to sugar-coat this. People will get too high as far as stats are concerned and if they do and they happen to be a very great role-player (something you didn't account for) they will wreck those who are on par with them, or even slightly better as roleplayer, just because their stats may end up becoming double that of the newer players. I know for a fact new players are extremely off-put by no stat cap once a site reaches a certain point. I'm looking for a long-lasting sign that will constantly gain more and more members. Not a site that will thrive with its original member base and struggle to acquire new members. No. I know you were half suggesting it, half not really, but I just felt it necessary to address since you more or less tried to push for no stat caps whether you intended to or not. You off-handedly pushed it.

I will remove the health stat. I myself was questioning the need for it. I will remove the buffs. Furthermore, the stat system does not apply to 'gods, angels, demons, etc.' since you may not and never will be able to apply for beings of that nature. I will slightly increase the strength and speeds. I will also add new limits for each race, rather than boosts. Though I'm still convinced they achieve essentially the same goal. I'm not changing the way the mana, stamina, and control stats are set up unless other members agree with you that it needs changing.

3. Plot

Private message me a new plot and I will decide whether or not it will be used to replace the current one. At the very least, I will make minor modifications if seen necessary. Rest assured, what you contribute will be used, modified or not.

4. Roll System

Origin rolls were removed. Rolls for taming will not be.

5. Universal Laws

This is not Naruto. This will never be Naruto.

6. Historical Artifacts

These are presently underway for creation. As of right now we are simply prioritizing other things over the creation of items, creatures, etc. Those are being saved for last. Thus, give it time. We will most certainly creating 'Legendary' class items, i.e: historical artifacts.


If I missed anything or misunderstood anything, please let me know, otherwise I'll be getting started on a few modifications to the site.
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PostSubject: Re: Changes to the Site   Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:33 am

Crystal Shaman wrote:

1. Specialties



I understand where you're coming from but what you need to understand first and foremost is that this is not a Naruto RPG. This is not going to mimic a Naruto RPG. This is not going to act as a substitute for a Naruto RPG. This is a fantasy RPG. With that said, there are more options but with that must come more restrictions. Such as a high number of specialties. The thing is, you should not simply by able to say 'Hey, I'm a master of weaponry, so I can wield any weapon and use any weapon in the world like an expert.' No, that's not how it works and it completely negates any purpose non-mana users have. If you want to be a non-mana user as it stands, you can invest in numerous combat skills to substitute your lack of mana-based skills. With your system, any mana user can simply focus on mana-based skills then drop some in 'Weaponry' and suddenly be able to hold their own against just about any non-mana user.

No. It also doesn't make sense for those who want to ONLY be skilled in a specific type of weapon. This is why we give out a relatively high number of skill points. Because there are so many skills to choose between. If someone wants to be a swordsman? So be it. Someone wants to wield a mace? A bow? Alright. They don't have to invest about a third of their skill points just so they can wield a bow or a mace or a sword. They can invest around 1/7 of their specialty points and only master one weapon, while investing the rest in skills that they actually want. Lowering the number of specialties can be extremely counter-productive to character creativity and originality. Why should half the site have the exact same specialty set-up? It's unappealing.

However, I do understand to a degree that perhaps the mana-based specialties should be more generic. And with that in mind, I will be re-writing the mana-based specialties to be a bit more inclusive and broaden them. Other than that, I don't see a lot more budging with regards to the specialties. As it stands, it allows for extreme diversity and character development. Something that Naruto RPGs really lack, in my opinion.

2.Stat System.



I'm not going to sugar-coat this. People will get too high as far as stats are concerned and if they do and they happen to be a very great role-player (something you didn't account for) they will wreck those who are on par with them, or even slightly better as roleplayer, just because their stats may end up becoming double that of the newer players. I know for a fact new players are extremely off-put by no stat cap once a site reaches a certain point. I'm looking for a long-lasting sign that will constantly gain more and more members. Not a site that will thrive with its original member base and struggle to acquire new members. No. I know you were half suggesting it, half not really, but I just felt it necessary to address since you more or less tried to push for no stat caps whether you intended to or not. You off-handedly pushed it.

I will remove the health stat. I myself was questioning the need for it. I will remove the buffs. Furthermore, the stat system does not apply to 'gods, angels, demons, etc.' since you may not and never will be able to apply for beings of that nature. I will slightly increase the strength and speeds. I will also add new limits for each race, rather than boosts. Though I'm still convinced they achieve essentially the same goal. I'm not changing the way the mana, stamina, and control stats are set up unless other members agree with you that it needs changing.

3. Plot



Private message me a new plot and I will decide whether or not it will be used to replace the current one. At the very least, I will make minor modifications if seen necessary. Rest assured, what you contribute will be used, modified or not.

4. Roll System



Origin rolls were removed. Rolls for taming will not be.

5. Universal Laws



This is not Naruto. This will never be Naruto.

6. Historical Artifacts



These are presently underway for creation. As of right now we are simply prioritizing other things over the creation of items, creatures, etc. Those are being saved for last. Thus, give it time. We will most certainly creating 'Legendary' class items, i.e: historical artifacts.


If I missed anything or misunderstood anything, please let me know, otherwise I'll be getting started on a few modifications to the site.


Ok.


1. My reference to it is because the sites for it are a model for using "magical powers" with appropriating restrictions and logic. But I do get what you are saying in that you are not making an attempt to consolidate both universes. This is about magic, orks, elves, and the typical "fantasy" model; not an anime concept really. I was looking for something that could combine the two but I now see that is not what you were ever intending so I am not going to press some of these points anymore...

I understand what you are saying. However that should be a sub-category of weaponry. You should be able to have the broad category of weaponry, and then be able to have skill points in any weapon. But still keep the concept of broad categories. This does not diminish originality; it makes for a foundation of it.

" Lowering the number of specialties can be extremely counter-productive to character creativity and originality. Why should half the site have the exact same specialty set-up? It's unappealing."

-This is untrue. The mistake I think you are making is assuming everyone will be as interested as you are in every facet of rpng. They will want a specific class with a class within that class with a class within that class etc. They will want to be able to pick the color of their underwear, and the exact measurements of their weapons. I will be the first to admit I am of a similar type. I go very deep. But in all honesty -  most do not. And the only turn off is forcing people to have to make a bunch of choices that most do not care about. Generic and simple is best for any site. Newer sites typicall over-complicate and try to be so special that they end up being too hard to consistently play on. The most long lasting sites have systems that are basic; with the option of taking it farther if you want. But you force people to because you feel it enhances creativity... But not everyone wants to spend the time being as creative as you might. Not at least in all the same ways. View it objectively. Not by just what excites you (or me).

Essentially all things can or will be mana-based so... I am not sure what you are meaning by that entirely. The basic categories I put up may have sub-categories; I think they should. But main categories should be your premise. And the sub-categories do not need to be so numerous that it makes the system as complex as it is currently. Again, creativity is spawned in rp. There is no need, and in fact it is hurtful, to have each and every possible fighting stlye's style - outlined. I really hope you reconsider this...


2. Stats.

Ok. Idk how I was "pushing" anything. I specifically stated what I thought ought to be. And that is for certain races to have caps taken off of certain stats. That is all. It will be far different, and you will see why when people start trying to earn points.

"Not a site that will thrive with its original member base and struggle to acquire new members." -  That is the result of a site that is made too complicated. The original zealots stay, but people stop continuing. My whole campaign for more simplicity is to avoid this. Please trust me somewhat as I have been down this road before, and learned this lesson. I am only giving objective - PROVEN advice in this regard.

You are making a fantasy rp. Firstly, you were the one who made the "origins" option that made people (quite literally) sons of god and the devil. I will say no more on that. My point however was not literal, but figurative. You are going to be dealing with beings of earth-shattering power. This is almost unavoidable and to seriously try to make this impossible will only hurt you in the end as people go to fantasy rps to try and do what is usually not possible. Part of the excitement is the idea that everyone has a bit of a "god" or "demon" or whatever in them. So with that being said - make your stats accordingly. No not everyone is superman. But some will be. No not everyone is Merlin. But someone will be. And this should not be a surprise to you when this shows up. It says something very good about your site. Firstly, you were smart enough to make a system that someone could, with hard work, accomplish high things (keeps people motivated for their chars). Secondly, you were able to keep someone's interest in this site long enough for them to develop and put the time in to create a character of that caliber. Someone reaching "god" level or status is a compliment to the site honestly.

"I'm not changing the way the mana, stamina, and control stats are set up unless other members agree with you that it needs changing."

-Ok. Do keep in mind that changes like this would have to be made BEFORE members start making chars. This is the type of thing that once people realize does not work, screws the entire site. There are complaints that it is too complicated, too many technicalities etc. Make battle more simple, and allow creativity to flourish by people's interactive rp. If you make too many percentages etc. you hinder this... Trust me. Again, been there done that. This is only in good faith.


3.Plot

I will need to know what modifications you will make - if any, and a more general idea of what your idea for this site is; because as of now I realize I may have had the wrong idea since I took a first look. I thought this was a place that was to make it possible for people of all verses to be able to make a char and co-exist under one roof of simple rules, yet rules that allowed for infinitely new things, concepts etc. to be created by members. Now I see this is more of a pre-set version of a typical fantasy site centered around King Arthurian like myths. Not saying this as an insult, I simply was under the wrong impression. You are the author and you decide how this goes down. But I would need to know that before I thought of a plot or any idea for this site.


4. Ok.


5. Again, I am referencing that universe for the sake of showing how a unique, yet basic power source can be used for other versions of power...
I see my point did not get across.

6. Understood. As I said before, I now realize my basic idea of how you wanted this site to go might be different than what I assumed. So please clarify that. If you are more so wanting this to be a primarily mage/magic/warlock based rp - let me know. Because than the center point of my arguments is unneccessary. No need to be inclusive and limitless if it was simply made to be based on many rps of its kind that already exist and have things like "rogues" who have seven classes of fighting by themselves...

Let me know if you have questions for me and thank you for replying.
Just as a note: If you are going to say that you are unwilling to make any changes until other members complain; I would warn against that. By the time members complain you have a problem on your hand. My somewhat harsh critiques are to avoid that, and to make that process as clean and as easy as possible. I also just want to say, just suggesting, to not get too worried that creativity will not be allowed if you do not include every small concept like necromancy. These things are often included in rp naturally and do not need to be classes in themselves. People having all those options  does not make them feel like they have more options but less. Give them something that covers a general thing, and maybe make a few specifics I.E. weapons, and then leave it alone. Do not include subs of subs of subs; that forces people to spend their time in very small areas whereas they would rather be able to rp as though they had mastered a general area after having spent time training to do so; not write thousands of words to realize they did not become good at Wizardry; but they became good at a category of a category of a category of a category of wizardry.

Not good at driving the car, but only of using the turning signal. Get the picture?

Let people get the most out of their time and energy spent, and their rp ability dictate how much they get out of what they have earned. Some will get out more than others...

Again, been there done that. Right or wrong I have only good intentions I assure you. Would not spend this time if I did not...

Let me know if you have any questions or if I am unclear about something. Also, if you need suggestions for something that you agree with me should be changed, let me know as I will never offer critique and then have no possible solution in mind.

Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: Changes to the Site   Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:31 am

I believe I misunderstood what you intended to say on the Stat System. I realized that after I had already posted and I was already going to sleep and thus did not have the energy to edit my post accordingly. My apologies.

Specialties

I have removed a good number of specialties to make things simpler and looking back now there are even more that I can remove that can be covered by a different system altogether, i.e: the special characteristics system I already had in mind. Thing such as Detection, Trap Removal, etc. I invite you to go take a look. The actual specialties for a non-artisan are now less than half of what they were, I believe. Artisan specialties will naturally stay as they are because artisans are different from combat-oriented characters and need a decent number of their own specializations. However, I did remove Arms Lore for the same reason I removed Rogue Specialties. Because they can be changed into a separate system altogether and used as potential Special Characteristics.

Stat System

My apologies, again, for assuming you were pushing something you weren't. I misunderstood that you meant higher limits instead of no limits at all.

Plot

I originally intended for magic to be a major factor in the RPG. I've tried what you have in mind before and it did not work out very well. At all. However, as I think about it more and more, that was more than likely related to other issues rather than the site idea itself. So I guess I will go ahead and shift to a different aspect while we're still in the works of the site. Feel free to take some creative freedoms. I highly doubt I'll make any modifications to it. Just keep relics (portals) and humans, elves and elins. You're free to add additional races as you see fit, however.

Universal Laws

I understood your point but there is a certain point where we must try to stop making the system imitate that of Naruto. Yes, the Naruto Universe did many things right and did so wonderfully. However, if people see too many similarities between our system and Naruto's system, they will be off-put.

Final Points

I understood where you are coming from, perhaps I was wrong to center my argument around creativity and originality, because yours does as well. However, I do not intend to reduce the current number of specialties any more than I already have. They are already significantly less than what they were and the only way I would reduce it any further was if you can give me a proper reason as to why to remove specific specialties and tell me why they are unnecessary.

Also...

Thank you for your interest in the site and the betterment of the site. I know getting your suggestions across has been a real hassle and I'm glad you are pushing forward regardless. I can be quite stubborn, as can others. I know it doesn't seem like it but I debate and argue and push back to make sure that you can firmly debate your point so that I can determine whether or not your suggestions are sound. I realize I can be wrong. That is why I wanted to give you the chance to properly get your point across to me. Again, thank you for not giving up. Your suggestions are great, even though I do not entirely agree with some of them. I do believe they will help the site in the long run.
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PostSubject: Re: Changes to the Site   Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:17 am

Crystal Shaman wrote:
I believe I misunderstood what you intended to say on the Stat System. I realized that after I had already posted and I was already going to sleep and thus did not have the energy to edit my post accordingly. My apologies.

Specialties


I have removed a good number of specialties to make things simpler and looking back now there are even more that I can remove that can be covered by a different system altogether, i.e: the special characteristics system I already had in mind. Thing such as Detection, Trap Removal, etc. I invite you to go take a look. The actual specialties for a non-artisan are now less than half of what they were, I believe. Artisan specialties will naturally stay as they are because artisans are different from combat-oriented characters and need a decent number of their own specializations. However, I did remove Arms Lore for the same reason I removed Rogue Specialties. Because they can be changed into a separate system altogether and used as potential Special Characteristics.

Stat System


My apologies, again, for assuming you were pushing something you weren't. I misunderstood that you meant higher limits instead of no limits at all.

Plot


I originally intended for magic to be a major factor in the RPG. I've tried what you have in mind before and it did not work out very well. At all. However, as I think about it more and more, that was more than likely related to other issues rather than the site idea itself. So I guess I will go ahead and shift to a different aspect while we're still in the works of the site. Feel free to take some creative freedoms. I highly doubt I'll make any modifications to it. Just keep relics (portals) and humans, elves and elins. You're free to add additional races as you see fit, however.

Universal Laws


I understood your point but there is a certain point where we must try to stop making the system imitate that of Naruto. Yes, the Naruto Universe did many things right and did so wonderfully. However, if people see too many similarities between our system and Naruto's system, they will be off-put.

Final Points


I understood where you are coming from, perhaps I was wrong to center my argument around creativity and originality, because yours does as well. However, I do not intend to reduce the current number of specialties any more than I already have. They are already significantly less than what they were and the only way I would reduce it any further was if you can give me a proper reason as to why to remove specific specialties and tell me why they are unnecessary.

Also...


Thank you for your interest in the site and the betterment of the site. I know getting your suggestions across has been a real hassle and I'm glad you are pushing forward regardless. I can be quite stubborn, as can others. I know it doesn't seem like it but I debate and argue and push back to make sure that you can firmly debate your point so that I can determine whether or not your suggestions are sound. I realize I can be wrong. That is why I wanted to give you the chance to properly get your point across to me. Again, thank you for not giving up. Your suggestions are great, even though I do not entirely agree with some of them. I do believe they will help the site in the long run.





1.Specialties

The system looks MUCH better.

Rogue specialties are entirely unnceccessary as being a rogue does not automatically denote special abilities. That is like saying "mother" specialties. You are doing too much; let the rper make being a rogue grant them certain openings. You simply don't need to be rogue to lie well. Being a rogue is a matter social advantage or disadvantage. They should start out with more gold or something to that affect; no abilities.

Under COMBAT SPECIALTIES: there should be listed close-combat fighting styles. Let me tell you why. Close-Combat is a genre of fighting. Martial arts is a style of close combat. List a few basic styles that people must train (hard to learn) and give slight boosts to their physical stats when using said style. Allow them to make custom techs that are of that style as well, and create new styles with requirements to learn them. Do not go overboard and list ten styles. List five or less. Let people invent the others and become world famous for them.

That being said make a new section for WEAPONRY. And put the different weapons under it, and give people boosts for "when you use x weapon" etc. For after all, the idea is that they get better when using certain weapons. IF you want you can make levels of development into weapon like you did with elemental mana techs. After all, there are many swordsmen; but some are more exceptional. Just a thought though.

Remove trapping. That is something some rpers are good at and some are not. But if I can use bombs, strings etc. - I can use my rp ability to figure out "traps". It is not a specific skill though it sounds like it. This one comes down to rp ability solely. You cannot auto-be good at laying traps. That is purely circumstantial. Not something to be earned but something to be shown in battle... or not.


Artisian Specialties - I will leave you alone here as I see the point in this now. And having multiple styles for this make sense, and you put the right ones there.


2. Plot


I realize that and I do not think that should change; however it should definitely not be the entire thing. If the majority of players want to be Warlocks - fine. It will be more prevelant. But there should be a very solid and sound system of equal consistency in terms of layout for a system that allows for "jutsus". The reason for this is not some obsession with Naruto. But simply taking a concept out of any series really, that works extremely well as a template, and using it. As I said before - Vampires do not use magic. And if you play your cards right on this site, which you are, you can have beings of all kinds fighting on the same world. You talk about creativity and uniquness....

This will do nothing bad to the concept of magic in the site; it will only benefit it to make sure that there is an equally alternative option that is slightly different, yet equal in theoretical potential, and an extremely easy system to understand.


"I've tried what you have in mind before and it did not work out very well. At all. However, as I think about it more and more, that was more than likely related to other issues rather than the site idea itself."

-I was going to make that point. If you are meaning tried to blend in the concepts so that they were coherent - it will work. Extremely well too. And if it does not, delete my account and change it back. Because I am certain that it will work; and work better even. I am willing to list reasons if you require them or would like them.


As far as the plot goes though... It can be tons better. I just want to iron out these things first so that I know what I am working with. As it stands, you changing the specialties makes the site already way better, and way easier to make something off of. I, and other players can add fluff and description and creativity to describe things not written down. Trust me.

And I was planning to keep relics (they are the best part of the plot) elins and elves. But I will be making it a bit more controversial to say the least. People will be begging to make a char.


3. Universal Laws:

"I understood your point but there is a certain point where we must try to stop making the system imitate that of Naruto. Yes, the Naruto Universe did many things right and did so wonderfully. However, if people see too many similarities between our system and Naruto's system, they will be off-put."

I think I am still rubbing you the wrong way with this reference. But I see your point. Let me just be clear on the specific reference I made with nature energy. The reason I brought it up is because "Mana" is a generic physical and spritiual energy that comes from living things and even the planet. So it would make perfect sense in said universe for there to exist a "nature energy" that could have physical enhancements and be something that non-mana users could have since it would not be mana-related per say.

Again, I am only adding in very generic and non-specific aspects of different universes that can be coherently put it and be additives. I realize for sure that it must not be a replica of naruto. I am more interested in the universal laws. Because put those in place and the players in the system will be creative on their own and will never know (or care) why the concept is there or if it exists similarly or at all in another universe.


Final Points

You've done a great job with specialties. No question. The only edits I still recommend are the ones I mentioned above that are in regard to it specifically. And only one specifically I found unneccessary.


Thank you for making great changes as you have, and let me know if you need help or if I need to clarify something or provide reasoning to back it.

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PostSubject: Re: Changes to the Site   Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:27 pm

Specialties

Martial Arts is any style of hand-to-hand, close quarters combats generally without the use of a weapon. That is why I chose it over something like 'Close Combat'. Also, if I make a separate section for weaponry then Martial Arts will be in it's own category. We already have styles. We simply do not have the system fully laid out for it yet.

Trapping was considered a specific specialty in the sense that full mechanisms acting as traps should require a specific specialty. "Strings and explosives" is different from a pressure sensitive mine or things of that nature. The difference is actual weapons designed to be traps and only traps. Not something you rigged in the midst of combat. Regardless, I'll remove it unless I'm requested to add it.

Plot

I speak of creativity and uniqueness... Yes. Not ripping from anime. We actually have a specific rule that prohibits canon material from anime in general. So, for example, someone can not make a 'Naruto' or an 'Ichigo', if you will. This is not a site where all ideas congregate, it was never stated to be so. Honestly, this is all irrelevant. I am willing to bend a bit on many things. As I have already done. You can not tell me what I want for the site as if I don't already know. You're free to say, "Hey, I think the site should be like this." but stop talking along the lines of: "You want this. You want that. This is your idea for the site isn't it?" because quite frankly, if it was my idea for the site, that's how the site would be. v.v I am simply accommodating your ideas. That is all.

Universal Laws

To put it simply, I said this in the chatbox and I'll reiterate, mana is a spiritual energy. A spiritual force derived from the soul that has physical influences. The Earth and surround nature should not have mana as a tree theoretically should not possess a soul, especially not dirt or grass. However, I am also willing to listen to reasoning that perhaps mana could be a physical and spiritual force. Regardless, who's to say that the mana of the Earth is compatible or even comparable, for that matter, to the mana used by the races? I don't want people drawing mana from the Earth. At the very least, not right now. Maybe in a future update.
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PostSubject: Re: Changes to the Site   Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:17 pm

Crystal Shaman wrote:

Specialties


Martial Arts is any style of hand-to-hand, close quarters combats generally without the use of a weapon. That is why I chose it over something like 'Close Combat'. Also, if I make a separate section for weaponry then Martial Arts will be in it's own category. We already have styles. We simply do not have the system fully laid out for it yet.

Trapping was considered a specific specialty in the sense that full mechanisms acting as traps should require a specific specialty. "Strings and explosives" is different from a pressure sensitive mine or things of that nature. The difference is actual weapons designed to be traps and only traps. Not something you rigged in the midst of combat. Regardless, I'll remove it unless I'm requested to add it.

Plot


I speak of creativity and uniqueness... Yes. Not ripping from anime. We actually have a specific rule that prohibits canon material from anime in general. So, for example, someone can not make a 'Naruto' or an 'Ichigo', if you will. This is not a site where all ideas congregate, it was never stated to be so. Honestly, this is all irrelevant. I am willing to bend a bit on many things. As I have already done. You can not tell me what I want for the site as if I don't already know. You're free to say, "Hey, I think the site should be like this." but stop talking along the lines of: "You want this. You want that. This is your idea for the site isn't it?" because quite frankly, if it was my idea for the site, that's how the site would be. v.v I am simply accommodating your ideas. That is all.

Universal Laws


To put it simply, I said this in the chatbox and I'll reiterate, mana is a spiritual energy. A spiritual force derived from the soul that has physical influences. The Earth and surround nature should not have mana as a tree theoretically should not possess a soul, especially not dirt or grass. However, I am also willing to listen to reasoning that perhaps mana could be a physical and spiritual force. Regardless, who's to say that the mana of the Earth is compatible or even comparable, for that matter, to the mana used by the races? I don't want people drawing mana from the Earth. At the very least, not right now. Maybe in a future update.


Ok. I can tell on some things I am speaking a different language so let me be as clear as possible.

Specialties:

Close combat entails martial arts; not vice versa. Martial arts is a sub form/style of Close-Combat. Weaponry is not a sub of swordsmanshp, but vice versa. Martial arts does not need to be in its own category; it needs to be a sub of close-combat. That is the category, and that was the point I was trying to make.

"Close Combat" does not entail the use of weapons, even though those can be used in close-quarters. Weaponry does not need a "long distance" or "close combat" section. People can rp out how they use their weapons... But close-combat fighting is a genre of fighting that meets certain conditions; and merely has specific arts that are used while fighting this way.

"Trapping was considered a specific specialty in the sense that full mechanisms acting as traps should require a specific specialty. "Strings and explosives" is different from a pressure sensitive mine or things of that nature. The difference is actual weapons designed to be traps and only traps. Not something you rigged in the midst of combat. Regardless, I'll remove it unless I'm requested to add it."

The first sentence I completely disagree with. You do not need a degree in trapping to be able to make a trap. Pressure sensitive mines are created by those who have skills to make that technology and used by anyone. Weapons designed to be traps and only traps? Again... this is nitpicking. Have some people capable of making this type of equipment because of their skill set, and let anyone who wants to use it - use it! And do so however they want. It is a matter of rpng; not the specific skill being created.
But ok.


Plot

This is where I am definitely not communicating well or as it would seem from your reply, you are not carefully reading my messages and going over them. I understand you might be fatigued, but I definitely think you missed some of what I have said clearly.

I never was trying to tell you how to make the site. All of my points were suggestive to try and achieve something I was under the impression you were. You said creativity and uniqueness. I did not think this meant ripping from anime. For the ninth time, universal laws of different universes allow for certain abilities to be possible. That is the only reason I made references. To create a universe that could cohabit slightly different things to make true uniqueness possible.

" This is not a site where all ideas congregate, it was never stated to be so. Honestly, this is all irrelevant. I am willing to bend a bit on many things. As I have already done. You can not tell me what I want for the site as if I don't already know. You're free to say, "Hey, I think the site should be like this." but stop talking along the lines of: "You want this. You want that. This is your idea for the site isn't it?" because quite frankly, if it was my idea for the site, that's how the site would be. v.v I am simply accommodating your ideas. That is all."

-... I addressed this in my last post. Not only was I not trying to tell you "what you want" for the site - but I in fact (more than once) flat out asked you what you wanted so I could coardinate my suggestions accordingly. I stated I was confused now as to what you were meaning by some things you said as I could see that there was misunderstanding. I was never trying to tell you what your idea should be like; only suggesting going about creating systems for an idea I already assumed you had. My interpretation of that idea was off; and that is why I asked for clarification in my last post. Idk if you read that carefully.

As for the last part of your statement, OK. I am going to assume that statement from now on. Because "quite frankly", I was under the impression you wanted the site to be a certain way, and I simply found some things you did to be good but inefficient ways of achieving that. But now I see our concepts are not the same in some ways; and you are the owner so do as you please. I am going to stop now.


Universal Laws

This was never meant to be a big point - so ok.


Last Point:

This is your site, and I have zero stand in how it goes. So I am just going to let you decide on things and if you would like a suggestion/idea from me, then I will give it; other than that I am going to shut up and assume what you said is true. If you wanted it to be a certain way - it would be. I am not trying to make your work load or stress load in greater than I am sure it is. I know running a site is like that and changes are x10 the stress.

I also see you like to do most things yourself anyway, so people like me are really unnecessary in the first place for how you like to run things. However, if you do ever need or want to collaborate on something; we will need to be of one mind and accord, as I am sure you agree.


Thanks for replying though.
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